Perspective

[Ludo*1]

We're joint 5th in terms of points (7th due to GD).

We're the 5th top scorers in the league and have scored more than the two teams that are ahead of us on GD.

Yesterday, we had almost double the shots and more than double the shots on target (9 on target!), 12 corners and more possession. We're the draw specialists in the league, but the way people are going on, you'd think we were in United's position right now.

Is everything as bad as people are making out? Granted, we're not the most pretty on the eye, and I'd sacrifice a place or two if we were great to watch personally (I know I'm in the minority with that one!) but we're doing relatively well. We're a frustrating team to watch - but when have we not been?

The season may well turn out to be a bit of a damp squib, but talk of getting rid of the manager etc strikes me that we as fans have learned nothing over the years. Are we just going to get rid of every manager that doesn't turn out to be absolutely brilliant and perfect in every manner?

Has Hartley improved us since he came in? Undoubtedly - on and off the park we look much more professional and have much more quality in the first team and youth. Yet some think he'll get us relegated despite the fact we're not even near being the worst team in the league in terms of form.

Based on the last 6 games (The stereotypical definition of form), here is the league table:

1. Celtic - 16 points.

2. St Johnstone - 15 points.

3. Hearts - 14 points.

4. ICT - 10 points.

5. Killie - 8 points

6. Partick Thistle - 8 points.

7. Dundee - 7 points

8. Ross County - 7 points.

9. Motherwell - 7 points

10. Hamilton - 5 points.

11. Aberdeen - 4 points.

12. United - 3 points.

So nothing like the relegation form some on here are proclaiming.

We've had 1 complete disaster this season - Dunfermline in the cup, no excuses from us, we should never be getting put out by a League One side especially as it's the type of competition we should be looking to try and win, but is that alone along with a couple of poor performances (In which the majority we've still been picking up points of some sort) be grounds for the meltdown that's been going on at present?

Bit of perspective is needed instead of thriving on 'disaster'.

[Prince Buster]

Losing leads to sides playing with ten men are complete disatsers in most people's views so there's been more than one complete disaster this season. If it isn't a complete disaster in any of the players' or managements' view then they shouldn't be doing what they're doing.

[Ludo*1]

Deeranged, on 08 Nov 2015 - 2:35 PM, said:

Losing leads to sides playing with ten men are complete disatsers in most people's views so there's been more than one complete disaster this season. If it isn't a complete disaster in any of the players' or managements' view then they shouldn't be doing what they're doing.

Is it really? Losing leads to sides with ten men happens all over the world from the Man United's of the world to Junior sides. Complete disaster is well over the top.

[Mr Gandosaur]

Losing leads to sides playing with ten men are complete disatsers in most people's views so there's been more than one complete disaster this season. If it isn't a complete disaster in any of the players' or managements' view then they shouldn't be doing what they're doing.

Agreed. The performance at Celtic for me was also a "disaster" - it was one of the single worst performances I have ever seen from a Dundee side.

[Attilio]

Is it really? Losing leads to sides with ten men happens all over the world from the Man United's of the world to Junior sides. Complete disaster is well over the top.

Yep.  Complete disaster is what is happening at the bottom of the league just now.

[Ivan Drago]

I would also echo that 3 games v 10 men yielding 3 points, 2 of which we were leading in is poor

Off the park I 100% agree we are looking better. The Americans have put in place the infrastructure to allow us to now hope for a bit better. Simply being better than Kerno or Chis is not the benchmark we should be using.

[Ludo*1]

Ivan Drago, on 08 Nov 2015 - 2:46 PM, said:

I would also echo that 3 games v 10 men yielding 3 points, 2 of which we were leading in is poor

Off the park I 100% agree we are looking better. The Americans have put in place the infrastructure to allow us to now hope for a bit better. Simply being better than Kerno or Chis is not the benchmark we should be using.

No - the benchmark we should be using is promotion at the first attempt, top 6 in the league in his second and looking a million miles away from the time when he took over.

[Ivan Drago]

No - the benchmark we should be using is promotion at the first attempt, top 6 in the league in his second and looking a million miles away from the time when he took over.

Of having a worse SPL win rate than our previous and much maligned boss.

[Ludo*1]

Ivan Drago, on 08 Nov 2015 - 2:50 PM, said:

Of having a worse SPL win rate than our previous and much maligned boss.

It's not hard to have a worse win rate when you've had 41 more games in that league rather than a 11 game stint without any pressure whatsoever. Bit of an unfair comparison, you'd almost think you enjoyed sticking the boot into Hartley.

[Attilio]

It's not hard to have a worse win rate when you've had 41 more games in that league rather than a 11 game stint without any pressure whatsoever. Bit of an unfair comparison, you'd almost think you enjoyed sticking the boot into Hartley.

Anyway PH hasn't failed yet. Far from it.   Unlike the previous manager.

[Ludo*1]

Attilio, on 08 Nov 2015 - 2:56 PM, said:

Anyway PH hasn't failed yet. Far from it.   Unlike the previous manager.

The previous manager that is hailed by Ivan, that quit because he didn't believe he could do what Hartley eventually done - get us promoted!

[Ivan Drago]

It's not hard to have a worse win rate when you've had 41 more games in that league rather than a 11 game stint without any pressure whatsoever. Bit of an unfair comparison, you'd almost think you enjoyed sticking the boot into Hartley.

It's not unfair at all. Its the easiest metric of comparison. There's no "arbitrary cut off" or he likes it's a simple wins over games ratio. If PH is the best manager in 15 years would you not expect him to comfortably be exceeding someone like bombers record?

I take no pleasure in this Ludo my friend and I genuinely would love to be watching the games you are but alas no.