Belfast...or Bell Street!

[HK Blues]

Interested to hear what folk think of the "alleged" late cancellation of the team's christmas shindig in Belfast. It's been touched on in other threads so apologies if repeating. And any comments are based on the assumption that PH did cancel the "do" as reported/opinioned.

For me, my initial reaction was "good." However, after a few minutes I began to consider more this decision.

Certainly it sends a message to the players, fans and owners that PH is not happy and is man enough to show this in a public way. And it perhaps clarifies that PH recognises that the club is bigger than any player and is the priority.

But...are we in our current state because of lack of effort by the players, or lack of application - on balance it seems not. Or because we have an unbalanced squad and a manager who has a belief about how we should play regardless of the consequences - maybe yes. Or quite simply because the players are not good enough - dunno. If it's any of the above then it's hardly the players fault and the "punishment" seems childish and perhaps a little impetuous.

Regardless of the reason(s) the players are human and will respond in different ways depending on their character. I assume PH has taken a calculated risk and decided that the players, on the main, will understand the decision and agree with it and respond appropriately. If not then we will quickly see the result and also how the manager is regarded by the team.

I guess being a football manager is like being a manager in other fields- unpopular decisions have to be made and that's the manager's job, they are not in a popularity contest. But those affected by the decisions need to accept the logic behind them or it's a tough one to take and the relationship is damaged or even destroyed.

Quite a big decision in what is becoming a big month in our manager's career at Dens.

Edited 14 December 2015 by HK Blues

[Billy Campbell's Ghost]

Focus on football, improving and winning games - next time a game is postponed then have a night out - too many importnat games looming right now.

Most of us have a staff night out with holidays to follow - The players have a spate of games thick and fast - its their job.

[JoeCovenant]

Scott Bain tweeted yesterday "Oh well, Belfast. Maybe next year."

It has since been taken down...

[Sebastiano Nela]

Not sure how I feel about it tbh (If indeed it is true - however I did see Scott Bain's tweet). The players haven't been playing well, but a lot of that lies at the door of the manager IMO.

Playing players out of position, and in formations that leave certain players out to dry (repeatedly) is poor management IMO. He should have saw that his setup wasn't working. Weeks ago.

[CC33]

Scott Bain tweeted yesterday "Oh well, Belfast. Maybe next year."

It has since been taken down...

Can see both points to the argument , can understand why PH cancelled it and can understand if players have taken the hump as they`ll see it as they`ve got lives outside fitbaw as well.

Im more in favour of PH decision tbh, but he himselfs must look in the mirror to why we are so poor

A win on Sat is a must.

[8utters]

The fact that the Christmas night out was cancelled tells us that we are right to be thinking we are in real trouble. If we were fans simply over-reacting to a few poor results / performances the night out would have gone ahead.

If PH has lost the dressing room (as I suspect) this act is not going to help results / performances in the short term but may speed up other changes at the club.

A good night out with maybe some 'clear the air' discussion froms which we could move forward from would have done no harm IMO. 

[ersinovski]

Agree with you 8utters, a bad decision whoever made it be from the Manager or from a higher source than him.

Everybody needs a break from the grind now and then, and a boy's night out and a chance to do some bonding, or perhaps re-bonding may have been the ticket  required to spark new life into the squad.

Of course we have seen this sort of thing before where a team has been criticised for following through with a night out when performing miserably, so suppose it was a catch 22 decision for somebody, but I feel it may do more harm than good, and perhaps a posturing decision to appeal to those who would have seen it as a reward not earned.

The wrong decision in my opinion.

[Ivan Drago]

Agree with you 8utters, a bad decision whoever made it be from the Manager or from a higher source than him.

Everybody needs a break from the grind now and then, and a boy's night out and a chance to do some bonding, or perhaps re-bonding may have been the ticket required to spark new life into the squad.

Of course we have seen this sort of thing before where a team has been criticised for following through with a night out when performing miserably, so suppose it was a catch 22 decision for somebody, but I feel it may do more harm than good, and perhaps a posturing decision to appeal to those who would have seen it as a reward not earned.

The wrong decision in my opinion.

Like you I can see both sides. I back PH in this one but also worry that this could be the action that "loses the dressing room". If that's the case then he will be gone shortly.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't but for me at least it shows this poor run is being treated seriously.

[Reverend Lovejoy]

The fact that the Christmas night out was cancelled tells us that we are right to be thinking we are in real trouble. If we were fans simply over-reacting to a few poor results / performances the night out would have gone ahead.

If PH has lost the dressing room (as I suspect) this act is not going to help results / performances in the short term but may speed up other changes at the club.

A good night out with maybe some 'clear the air' discussion froms which we could move forward from would have done no harm IMO. 

Seems unlikely. Who goes on a night out and speaks about work?. Normally the boring Basturds that are no invited!!!!!!!!!.

[Gedee]

It's a good topic HK Blues .... and although I, like others, have already commented on this in other posts, it deserves a separate spot.

Immmediate reaction was YES. But after some more thought, I was not so certain. If it was thought through & this was the conclusion

reached .... then probably OK.  If it was decided in the heat of the moment by a petulant PH or BOD, then it was wrong. (imo)

Think it would have been an idea if PH in his post match talk, quietly spoke to his players & made it clear he was not only NOT happy with

today's games, he felt there might be things that generally had to be spoken about. And it was time to clear the air, through a long open

honest talk between management & players. I would have emphasised, I did not see a "night oot jolly" as apropriate at this time. And for this

time anyway, it should be postponed. At this point, I would have asked the players their thoughts on this. And if necessay suggested a vote.

Whatever way the vote went I'm sure PH will have learned something from it. If all players agreed to postpone their night oot, I would suggest

cancel training on Monday altogether, and lets have this honest "clear the air talk" with everyone.The emphasis should be on the positive. That

is...how to get Outr Team back on track. But if negative issues do arise, they are better spoken about.  And there will not be any incriminations.

(This idea might look rubbish in print, especially as I dont know the issues involved, or how the whole thing was handled. But even if some players

admitted simply to NOT understanding the system, or the role they were meant to play in it, that in it's self would be one huge step in the right

direction. If some players are not happy, the last thing PH may want to do, is further alienate his players. Discipline & respect can work together)

[HK Blues]

For me, in terms of losing the dressing room this act alone wouldn't be enough. But, if PH was kinda teetering on the edge then this might be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

And he himself knew all this before the decision was made, assuming it was his - if not his directly he would have had strong input - then he would have been aware if the consequences. I read into that, and perhaps Bain's tweet follows this logic, that PH has either given up or is treating the players as adults and giving them enough respect to let them be adult about the decision.

Either way, let's hope it doesn't backfire. Saturday will help with the answer.

[Gedee]

For me, in terms of losing the dressing room this act alone wouldn't be enough. But, if PH was kinda teetering on the edge then this might be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

And he himself knew all this before the decision was made, assuming it was his - if not his directly he would have had strong input - then he would have been aware if the consequences. I read into that, and perhaps Bain's tweet follows this logic, that PH has either given up or is treating the players as adults and giving them enough respect to let them be adult about the decision.

Either way, let's hope it doesn't backfire. Saturday will help with the answer.

I think understandably  the decision would have some effect on the players. But I still believe a lot woud be around the way it was handled.

If it was one of these ill-thought through, exasperated decisions, delivered in a frothy, spluttering fury, then I think players will respond badly.

Keeping cool, explaining your line of thought, and if/when, possible get the players engaged in the process, for me would be the way to go.