Ph's Cv

[HK Blues]

I will start by saying i think appointing PH was a very good decision, and he has moved our club forward - or at least he has been here at the same time as our club has moved forward if you want to put a negative spin on the man. I don't.

Maybe he is one of those managers we have all met/worked for - a man with a vision and philosophy of how things should be done in that ideal world that doesn't exist. That might explain what many call his stubbornness and pig headedness.

It's maybe hard for us to accept, but he is not a 'Dundee man' unlike Barry Smith and Jocky, to a slightly lesser extent Duffy or even dare i say it, John Brown ( agree the last one might be stretching a point buy i hope you get my general meaning) so he just doesn't feel what those with a much deeper tie to the club do - hence his apparent apathy towards the importance of the Derby.

I'll even go as far as to say we have to consider the possibility/probability that Dundee FC is just another job on his CV...a stepping stone to bigger things and a window to show the wider football world his philosophy.Alloa? That might explain some of his decisions and team selections/tactics. The greater good and all that.

I cannot actually blame him if any of the above is even slightly accurate - we all want to do better and he only has to show loyalty to those paying his wages, i don't think anyone can question him on that.

But he won't make a positive impression by doing the 'right things' if things are not being 'done right' on the park.

When the ref. is invisible he/she is having a good game - the fact that so much of our focus is on PH rather than the team perhaps tells a story too.

He is the man for the job...or at least he is the best man for the job so PH, please get the job done!

Starting on Wednesday if poss.

Edited 28 December 2015 by HK Blues

[Gedee]

I will start by saying i think appointing PH was a very good decision, and he has moved our club forward - or at least he has been here at the same time as our club has moved forward if you want to put a negative spin on the man. I don't.

Maybe he is one of those managers we have all met/worked for - a man with a vision and philosophy of how things should be done in that ideal world that doesn't exist. That might explain what many call his stubbornness and pig headedness.

It's maybe hard for us to accept, but he is not a 'Dundee man' unlike Barry Smith and Jocky, to a slightly lesser extent Duffy or even dare i say it, John Brown ( agree the last one might be stretching a point buy i hope you get my general meaning) so he just doesn't feel what those with a much deeper tie to the club do - hence his apparent apathy towards the importance of the Derby.

I'll even go as far as to say we have to consider the possibility/probability that Dundee FC is just another job on his CV...a stepping stone to bigger things and a window to show the wider football world his philosophy.Alloa? That might explain some of his decisions and team selections/tactics. The greater good and all that.

I cannot actually blame him if any of the above is even slightly accurate - we all want to do better and he only has to show loyalty to those paying his wages, i don't think anyone can question him on that.

But he won't make a positive impression by doing the 'right things' if things are not being 'done right' on the park.

When the ref. is invisible he/she is having a good game - the fact that so much of our focus is on PH rather than the team perhaps tells a story too.

He is the man for the job...or at least he is the best man for the job so PH, please get the job done!

Starting on Wednesday if poss.

A very well written an thought through post there HK, which for the neutral & fair minded fan/supporter, raises some interesting points.

Although whether at this stage, there are any "neutral" fans left when it comes to assessing PH, is very open to question. Most fans

want to see him succeed (imo) not only for the good of DFC, but I think it's fair to say, that they see him as a dedicated, hard working

person, who really wants the best for our Club, (& in doing so, of course himself)  Some of his judgements though have been worrying.

Is he totally focused in his goal?  Or just plain stubborn?  I really do not know. Maybe the tactics/systems/style of play, that he seems

so determined to develop, would work well if he had the right quality of players. But it seems they are not. And so I think he should go

back to the drawing board & work with what he's got. Maybe add another couple. But keep it direct & simple. Results are all that matter.

With that in mind, although I was (maybe still am) behind PH, if we lose games/points & he refuses to change iI would be concerned.

(PS) I'M THINKING OF STARTING WORK AGAIN AS WIFE MARGARET HAS PUT UP RESTRICTIONS ON PC (Need CV urgently)

to say m

[Attilio]

I will start by saying i think appointing PH was a very good decision, and he has moved our club forward - or at least he has been here at the same time as our club has moved forward if you want to put a negative spin on the man. I don't.

Maybe he is one of those managers we have all met/worked for - a man with a vision and philosophy of how things should be done in that ideal world that doesn't exist. That might explain what many call his stubbornness and pig headedness.

It's maybe hard for us to accept, but he is not a 'Dundee man' unlike Barry Smith and Jocky, to a slightly lesser extent Duffy or even dare i say it, John Brown ( agree the last one might be stretching a point buy i hope you get my general meaning) so he just doesn't feel what those with a much deeper tie to the club do - hence his apparent apathy towards the importance of the Derby.

I'll even go as far as to say we have to consider the possibility/probability that Dundee FC is just another job on his CV...a stepping stone to bigger things and a window to show the wider football world his philosophy.Alloa? That might explain some of his decisions and team selections/tactics. The greater good and all that.

I cannot actually blame him if any of the above is even slightly accurate - we all want to do better and he only has to show loyalty to those paying his wages, i don't think anyone can question him on that.

But he won't make a positive impression by doing the 'right things' if things are not being 'done right' on the park.

When the ref. is invisible he/she is having a good game - the fact that so much of our focus is on PH rather than the team perhaps tells a story too.

He is the man for the job...or at least he is the best man for the job so PH, please get the job done!

Starting on Wednesday if poss.

Good post HK.  At the time he was appointed, I had the feeling that DFC would a stepping stone for PH on to bigger things.  How long did I think he would be here?  The shelf life of any manager isn't long these days but I was hopeful of getting around 3 seasons out of him and in that time he would take us forward.  Time's nearly up, I suppose but imo he has taken us forward in terms of off field and on field set up. Lets not kid ourselves though - a good proportion of our support didn't want PH here in the first place for whatever reason and as soon as things didn't start to go to plan, they've been very vocal.  That's the nature of our support imo.

In terms of his decisions?  That is what he is paid for.  I'm guessing that he has played and managed at a much higher level than anyone who posts on here or is likely to post on here so who knows best?  With the advent of football computer games and 20/20 hindsight everyone is an expert all of a sudden.  With the advent of world-wide TV football 24/7, people also expect a team that wins more often than not and plays entertaining football at the same.  One day this century maybe but everyone is entitled to an opinion.

He's been here nearly two seasons now and one way or the other I don't think he has long left, whether he walks or is hounded out, DFC style.  As fans of the club, I worry that we can't break ourselves from the 'must have a DFC man at the helm' thinking.  "This guy was my DFC hero when I was 10 so he would definitely make a good manager thing",  I can't think of a more certain way of failure than this.  Must be the best man for the job regardless.

The club is in a better position now than when he arrived and that is down to him and the BOD.  I would imagine/hope the BOD have succession planning in place if he does move on.

[HK Blues]

The last para. in your post Attilio is the best we, indeed any club, can ask of a manager-to leave the ship in a steadier shape than it was when they too over. How much is the manager, how much the BOD doesn't really matter,and both are reliant on each other anyway.

If PH left tomorrow then it would be a harsh man, or women, who would say he has not moved us forward.

In terms of how long we gave him,or him us, that will depend as much on his success as any masterplan but I'd say your 3 year timescale isn't unreasonable.

I'm not so sure about succession planning for managers in football though. I'm only really aware of one club who seemed to have a clear process on this, Liverpool with their boot room approach. Was it a success? Definitely up to a point but in different times so not sure it's value today. I'd prefer we look as much at what's outside as inside - perhaps that was what you meant anyway Attilio.

It's certainly true that being an ex-dee curries favour with our fans - indeed this i imagine applies to most clubs - and perhaps is one reason PH wasn't accepted positively by all when he arrived.

Ah well, que sera sera!

[HK Blues]

Gedee- your good lady hasn't caught you looking at things you shouldn't on the internet again has she?

[mondee93]

Attilio like you i found hartleys appointment a breath of fresh air , a new direction etc and was really hoping it was a new beginning for us. He does have a decent cv but he is also contstantly letting himself down with constant strange tactics ,formations ,team selections etc. Hes also a victim of the league structure with so many teams in a precarious position its hard for managers in our position to try new things and youngsters coz as we know 1 defeat puts you back near the bottom.

Whats frustrating is the fact we do have a better team on paper but we're just not seeing it. Our injury situations just as bad as it was a few seasons ago as well. Hartley was meant o bring in fresh training methods and fitness regime yet it doesnt show, in fact i would say we're worse off for it, this half time routine for examples a bit of a minter ! With price increases etc people were hoping we'd kick on this season and be comfortable and with the dabs being sh**e its an opportunity to get well above them yet we're limping along and the manager doesnt seem to know what to do about it ! We've got youngsters there who could maybe make a difference but never used and the same players filling roles their not suited to and it doesnt work.As i said that could be due to the pressures of the league but some of the youngsters that have played havent really done anything wrong but never play again.

I dont know what'll happen after the nxt 2 games if we lose but i hope we turn things round and get to a safe position, lose the next 2 and the bod will have a serious and difficult decision to make but again maybe finances will dictate what happens

[HK Blues]

I'm not too much into setting v. short term targets such as lose our next 2 games and xyz will happen.

For me, the manner of defeat and the impact on league position need to be considered.

2 heavy defeats and/or us slipping into 11th would need some thought though.

[Gedee]

Gedee- your good lady hasn't caught you looking at things you shouldn't on the internet again has she?

If you mean what I think you mean HK.....I think it's reached the stage, where she might well prefer it if I did 

I think it's the 12 hours a day I spend writing posts on TDB !!  She (& some on here) might be happier if I did  

(And back to my CV) ....

No wantin' to be considered for any part in "funny" movies. My stamina (& ither things) might let me doon

[Gedee]

Good post HK.  At the time he was appointed, I had the feeling that DFC would a stepping stone for PH on to bigger things.  How long did I think he would be here?  The shelf life of any manager isn't long these days but I was hopeful of getting around 3 seasons out of him and in that time he would take us forward.  Time's nearly up, I suppose but imo he has taken us forward in terms of off field and on field set up. Lets not kid ourselves though - a good proportion of our support didn't want PH here in the first place for whatever reason and as soon as things didn't start to go to plan, they've been very vocal.  That's the nature of our support imo.

In terms of his decisions?  That is what he is paid for.  I'm guessing that he has played and managed at a much higher level than anyone who posts on here or is likely to post on here so who knows best?  With the advent of football computer games and 20/20 hindsight everyone is an expert all of a sudden.  With the advent of world-wide TV football 24/7, people also expect a team that wins more often than not and plays entertaining football at the same.  One day this century maybe but everyone is entitled to an opinion.

He's been here nearly two seasons now and one way or the other I don't think he has long left, whether he walks or is hounded out, DFC style.  As fans of the club, I worry that we can't break ourselves from the 'must have a DFC man at the helm' thinking.  "This guy was my DFC hero when I was 10 so he would definitely make a good manager thing",  I can't think of a more certain way of failure than this.  Must be the best man for the job regardless.

The club is in a better position now than when he arrived and that is down to him and the BOD.  I would imagine/hope the BOD have succession planning in place if he does move on.

When PH came to DFC I was over the moon. I certainly was one of those who, when things things maybe appeared NOT,

to be going quite to plan, I said on here, that (imo) much of this for him was a learning process. I added at the time, I also

believed he was the kind of manager (in my estimation) who would quickly learn by his mistakes.   It may be I've certainly

got this bit wrong. Ultimately, only time will tell. I think most DFC fans want to give him more time. But not at the expense

of losing games/points, that are going to put us into the play-off/relegation zone. Some stuff in the present Premiership set-up

is good. But at the same time, it takes no prisoners !!  There is a lot of pressure on PH/DFC/Fans. We are all under pressure.

[Gedee]

Attilio like you i found hartleys appointment a breath of fresh air , a new direction etc and was really hoping it was a new beginning for us. He does have a decent cv but he is also contstantly letting himself down with constant strange tactics ,formations ,team selections etc. Hes also a victim of the league structure with so many teams in a precarious position its hard for managers in our position to try new things and youngsters coz as we know 1 defeat puts you back near the bottom.

Whats frustrating is the fact we do have a better team on paper but we're just not seeing it. Our injury situations just as bad as it was a few seasons ago as well. Hartley was meant o bring in fresh training methods and fitness regime yet it doesnt show, in fact i would say we're worse off for it, this half time routine for examples a bit of a minter ! With price increases etc people were hoping we'd kick on this season and be comfortable and with the dabs being sh**e its an opportunity to get well above them yet we're limping along and the manager doesnt seem to know what to do about it ! We've got youngsters there who could maybe make a difference but never used and the same players filling roles their not suited to and it doesnt work.As i said that could be due to the pressures of the league but some of the youngsters that have played havent really done anything wrong but never play again.

I dont know what'll happen after the nxt 2 games if we lose but i hope we turn things round and get to a safe position, lose the next 2 and the bod will have a serious and difficult decision to make but again maybe finances will dictate what happens

Another good post on thios topic mondee'

You have raised many good points, as well as introducing some other aspects. In fact so many, I hope they are dicussed further.

However, I think, I've delved into this too much already & would prefer to hear others thoughts on the points you have raised here.

Especially those in your second paragraph .." Better team on paper"..."Injury, fitness training methods" ..."Reluctance to introduce

young players"... "Importance of the next few games"  This is not a case of firing bullets at PH, ..... I just want DFC to do better.

[Spiritof62]

Is it my imagination or are the players hearts are no longer in the half time routines.

Some of them look totally disinterested.

[Dundeefc1783]

They look embarrassed by it if you ask me