Wild Card For Champions League?

[HK Blues]

I've heard some pretty arrogant and self-interested things in connection with football, but a comment by the Barcelona Chairman is up there with the best.

He suggested that UEFA should consider introducing a wild card system, like the one in tennis, to ensure that the top clubs don't miss out on the premier competition through having a bad season.

If this is the way the elite clubs are thinking then it's only a matter of time before "the beautiful game " is lost to the fans. It's the start of an ultimate breakaway league with only the best invited to join.

For me, it's a real risk to the existence of football as we know it.

Exaggeration?

[JoeCovenant]

I dunno.

I think it may kill the mega millions stranglehold that sky et al have on the game?

People will get pretty bored of the larger *elite* competitions if it is constantly the same teams involved...? Maybe?

[steven dees]

The champions league has already become stale and really boring. It's not about the football now it's just about how can the big teams make more money.

It's never going to change though. It's always going to be like this from now on as the big clubs and the television companies will make sure it stays like this for ever.

[Cobra]

Barcelona and Real Madrid are getting worried. They've just been forced to start sharing the TV money with smaller La Liga clubs while at the same time the English Premier League TV deal has gone through the roof with the 20th placed team to get £100m from next season. This means that clubs like Milan are not going to be able to compete with the likes of Norwich for top players and Barcelona and Real could soon find that star players like Suarez and Ronaldo can get more money elsewhere.

Regarding this wild card nonsense, it's really not that surprising that the big clubs would go along with it to bail themselves out after a bad season. It's such a terrible idea though, it will never happen. If Uefa decided to let Chelsea into the Champions League after finishing mid-table, I'm sure other clubs could take Uefa to court for gifting them an unfair advantage.

[Abdul Latif]

I think it's the first step to creating a system like they have in the North America which IMO would work pretty well.

You have a new 2 tier closed Euro Super League with the biggest teams in Europe which would be for example like the NFL/NHL.

Those 40 or so teams do not compete in their domestic domestic set ups any more so it leaves behind much more competitive leagues they have come out of. You could also go back to a proper Champs League (league winners only) and Cup Winners Cup as Euro competition for the Domestic leagues.

In North America they may well have their top tier closed leagues, but massive amounts of punters still go to watch smaller leagues and teams.

Edited 23 February 2016 by Abdul Latif

[HK Blues]

Jock Stein once said that you could put 2 teams of pensioners on a park and they would serve up a competitive match. But would anyone pay to watch it?

That's my main concern over a 'super league' with national leagues continuing without the elite clubs.

Broken down to our level, would we really see value in winning a league with no old firm? Of course, i accept that you can not do more than win what you face, but i wouldn't choose it that way.

The EPL is close to becoming too rich and that may just force UEFA to look more seriously at financial fair play, with salary caps, transfer embargos and restrictions etc. The Spanish, German and Italian clubs may force UEFA into action.

Interesting times off the park if not on it.

[chomp my root]

Jock Stein once said that you could put 2 teams of pensioners on a park and they would serve up a competitive match. But would anyone pay to watch it?

That's my main concern over a 'super league' with national leagues continuing without the elite clubs.

Broken down to our level, would we really see value in winning a league with no old firm? Of course, i accept that you can not do more than win what you face, but i wouldn't choose it that way.

The EPL is close to becoming too rich and that may just force UEFA to look more seriously at financial fair play, with salary caps, transfer embargos and restrictions etc. The Spanish, German and Italian clubs may force UEFA into action.

Interesting times off the park if not on it.

Is it not just a case of the EPL has become massively successful and the rest of us are just a bit jealous ? I take your point about winning the league without the OF being a bit hollow but I was delighted to win the Championship, it didn't bother me that there weren't any 'giant' teams in it and I reckon it would be the same in the SPL if the OF left for England or an Atlantic League. The football clubs are businesses and if they can make more money going down a certain route they'll almost certainly do it, if that means the fan base changes to a more affluent one its crap for the fans that get 'left behind' but if the club make more money the businessmen will be happy, we might be seeing that in a small way at our own club unfortunately. 

[Cobra]

Broken down to our level, would we really see value in winning a league with no old firm? Of course, i accept that you can not do more than win what you face, but i wouldn't choose it that way.

I don't get that mentality at all. If we won the league without the Old Firm, we would be champions of Scotland. That's what the history books would show and I would celebrate it just as much as if Rangers and Celtic were involved.

Dundee beating bigger clubs like Aberdeen and Hearts to the title would be a fantastic achievement. For me, that would be a far greater achievement than Celtic and Bayern winning domestic titles against teams on a fraction of their budget as happens now.

Edited 23 February 2016 by Cobra

[HK Blues]

I don't get that mentality at all. If we won the league without the Old Firm, we would be champions of Scotland. That's what the history books would show and I would celebrate it just as much as if Rangers and Celtic were involved.

Dundee beating bigger clubs like Aberdeen and Hearts to the title would be a fantastic achievement. For me, that would be a far greater achievement than Celtic and Bayern winning domestic titles against teams on a fraction of their budget as happens now.

You don't get the mentality that for some people winning a league without the top 2 teams (historicaly) would be less meaningful?

As i said in my post Cobra, i accept we can only win what is in front of us but winning the top league in Scotland without the old firm would be less meaningful than if they were still around - for me. I'm not saying it wouldn't be an achievement, just devalued.

Yes, the record books would rightly record such a win, but is that so important? In the same way the record books record points achieved in a season but we all know that moving from 2 to 3 points for a win distorts the info.

[HK Blues]

Is it not just a case of the EPL has become massively successful and the rest of us are just a bit jealous ? I take your point about winning the league without the OF being a bit hollow but I was delighted to win the Championship, it didn't bother me that there weren't any 'giant' teams in it and I reckon it would be the same in the SPL if the OF left for England or an Atlantic League. The football clubs are businesses and if they can make more money going down a certain route they'll almost certainly do it, if that means the fan base changes to a more affluent one its crap for the fans that get 'left behind' but if the club make more money the businessmen will be happy, we might be seeing that in a small way at our own club unfortunately.

I don't think Scottish football in general is jealous of the success of the EPL (we are not competing with England for talent, revenue, success etc) but definitely agree the heavyweights in Europe(Italy, Germany, Spain) are. I don't sympathise with them t.b.h. But i do worry that year-by-year things are moving towards an elitist situation which might not be in the best interests of football in general. Already we see club v country conflicts much more than in the past as an example.

Yes, football has gone down the business route, our club included, and that has repercussions such as the ongoing debate about ticket prices at Dens. I'm just concerned that we go too far and one day see football franchises popping up and clubs moving to more lucrative locations and leagues, all to the detriment of those left behind.

It's true we cannot stand in the way of progress but at least we can help shape that progress, is that not the role of the custodians of football, FIFA? But we know how that goes.

On the flipside, at least we (DundeeFC) are far enough down the pyramid to be insulated long enough to see out my days! ðŸ˜

[chomp my root]

I don't think Scottish football in general is jealous of the success of the EPL (we are not competing with England for talent, revenue, success etc) but definitely agree the heavyweights in Europe(Italy, Germany, Spain) are. I don't sympathise with them t.b.h. But i do worry that year-by-year things are moving towards an elitist situation which might not be in the best interests of football in general. Already we see club v country conflicts much more than in the past as an example.

Yes, football has gone down the business route, our club included, and that has repercussions such as the ongoing debate about ticket prices at Dens. I'm just concerned that we go too far and one day see football franchises popping up and clubs moving to more lucrative locations and leagues, all to the detriment of those left behind.

It's true we cannot stand in the way of progress but at least we can help shape that progress, is that not the role of the custodians of football, FIFA? But we know how that goes.

On the flipside, at least we (DundeeFC) are far enough down the pyramid to be insulated long enough to see out my days!

Its a Pandora's box situation, the clubs have embarked down a route and I think they'll keep going until the bubble bursts for whatever reason.

As for us not being in competition with the EPL, we kind of are, every Chelsea shirt sold up here could be a Dundee/Hibs/Albion Rovers top, the English game is broadcast up here and I'm pretty sure there will be football fans who would rather sit at home or go to the pub to watch a game between two 'giants' rather than a mediocre game up here. The paltry sum offered by the broadcasters for our 'product' shows how little its watched. I do agree that the Spanish etc are starting to keech it because the EPL is getting even bigger and more powerful and they're starting to struggle to hold on to players and that's their concern rather than genuine 'fairness' issues, as I said, once the box has been opened though, there was always going to be winners and losers.

If for any reason I couldn't afford to go to watch DFC in the future I'll be pisssed off but I'll still go and watch football, I don't make every away game now, due to finances so I try and take in the odd random game, I go to watch junior football too if my local team are at home. I think you're right about us being far enough down the food chain for it not to be an issue but we still see above inflation ticket price hikes and attendances are down this year so some must be voting with their feet. Its a juggling act for the money men to try and squeeze as much out of us as they think they can get away with.

[HK Blues]

I don't disagree with any of that Chomp.

I remember, as I'm sure you do, the days when the only live tv football was the Home International v England and the World Cup every 4 years. Nothing else, not even the Cup final. For sure it was a starvation diet but it certainly made you hungry for the next Dundee match. Now we are overdosed on live football.

I cannot watch any live football on tv or internet here from Scotland or England so I'm trying to get into Dutch and German games but the product, which is as good as the EPL IMO, is not packaged as well for tv. I only mention that to show how important packaging and marketing are now in football - as much as the product quality.

Ah well, at least we have a team we can be proud of again after 35+years. So it's not all bad. 😊