An Alternative View Of The Weekend

[barkblue]

I’ve read most of the posts since yesterday’s game but haven’t really posted anything as I wanted to reflect on the game first, rather than pile in with the reactionary stuff I usually spout after a disappointing result. 

 

After the Rangers, Hamilton and Killie games I’ve been utterly angry at thrown away points, poor performances and a lack of ability to execute whatever the plan was. However I walked out of Dens on Sunday actually thinking it was the best (only seen the home games) league performance I’ve seen so far this season.

 

We weren’t great and I can’t be and am not happy with a 3-1 loss at home. However against Killie and Hamilton we were bossed on the park by poor sides and never got our own game plan into action. Against Rangers, we let them go 2 up before having a go. Other than a poorly defended and awful piece of goalkeeping, up until the mid-point of the second half it looked like what Hartley was trying to do was working - namely give Aberdeen’s CBs lots of the ball, let them fanny about with it and lose it to the niggly industry of El Bak, O’Hara and Gowser.

 

Then either Williams got injured, or Hartley got greedy. Williams wasn’t great but as soon as he went off, Logan got his first two crosses of the second half in, McInnes swapped Johnny Hayes to the right, Holt for the first time in the game working single handedly, was skinned and bang, we go behind. 

 

Up till then, Bain made two great saves but we had an equal amount of chances, even if Aberdeen bossed possession. 

 

Before the game I thought PH had lost his marbles, basically going the much maligned 4-6 (El Bak was furthest forward, but hardly a frontman). However it looked like working until he made the change and McInnes out thought him. 2-1 was just about right, 3-1 (never a pen by the way) flattered Aberdeen big time. However other than McInnes and Chick Young (who was just about licking McInnes post-match) I don’t think too many folks would have argued against 1-1 being fair enough.

 

Nevin said as much last night on TV and even Allan Preston said “Dundee will be just fine” on the radio - and he really doesn’t like us. 

 

Plusses - 

 

Good shape to the team. Other than a couple of slips the back 4 were solid - possibly Cammy’s best game. Wrongly booked early on, but handled that and Hayes REALLY well and unlike O’Hara showed a real maturity after his booking (and I’ve been wrongly accused of being a Kerr-basher), Jules was rock solid (I’m not a fan) and Holt (even with the slips in mind) continues to improve and scored a good goal. 

 

Hately, El Bak (and Gomis) all look like decent, late additions to the squad.

 

El Bak looks a player. Superb attitude, great feet, great awareness. 

 

Minuses

 

Losing, obviously. 

 

Hartley’s subbies. I’m not sure I’ve seen a manager whose changes consistently make us a worse team on the day. Loy still looking like a lost wee laddie (and I’ve stood up for him) when asked to play in this system, Wighton struggles badly defensively and hasn’t come on the way we all hoped/expected (plenty time yet, he’s young) but he should be pushing for a consistent start now and he’s not really.

 

A SERIOUS lack of goal threat.

 

Lack of depth in the squad in important areas and too many players (Gowser, Ross, O’Hara, Vincent, Low maybe even Duffy and now Hately (who I’d guess was signed as a RB but PH has decided he’s better than his other midfield holding options, so that’s where he’s playing) for the same area of the park.

 

That when we attack, we seem unable to not lose goals and that when we sit in, we lack threat.

 

No partner for El Bak.

 

Anyway, (tin het on) I know many will crucify me for the above - after all the mood isn’t good and I totally get why. However I’m more heartened after Sunday than I was the other 3 home games, because I at least see a plan coming together and a little more understanding between the players than I have up until now.

 

That said, we need some more points on the board, a win or two quite soon and a goal threat. other than that, we’re set… 

[Bubster]

Great post.

Only bit I wholeheartedly disagree with is that Killie bossed us. We had 60% possession and limited them to 1 (freak) shot on target. We jumped them and were unlucky not to take all 3 points.

I watch every game back and it's amazing what hindsight and the removal of the nervousness can do for your perception.

[barkblue]

2 minutes ago, Bubster said:

Great post.

Only bit I wholeheartedly disagree with is that Killie bossed us. We had 60% possession and limited them to 1 (freak) shot on target. We jumped them and were unlucky not to take all 3 points.

I watch every game back and it's amazing what hindsight and the removal of the nervousness can do for your perception.

Good point Bubster. I'd have been better saying we could have played all day against Killie and not scored a second.

[eyeothedug]

1 hour ago, barkblue said:

I’ve read most of the posts since yesterday’s game but haven’t really posted anything as I wanted to reflect on the game first, rather than pile in with the reactionary stuff I usually spout after a disappointing result. 

 

After the Rangers, Hamilton and Killie games I’ve been utterly angry at thrown away points, poor performances and a lack of ability to execute whatever the plan was. However I walked out of Dens on Sunday actually thinking it was the best (only seen the home games) league performance I’ve seen so far this season.

 

We weren’t great and I can’t be and am not happy with a 3-1 loss at home. However against Killie and Hamilton we were bossed on the park by poor sides and never got our own game plan into action. Against Rangers, we let them go 2 up before having a go. Other than a poorly defended and awful piece of goalkeeping, up until the mid-point of the second half it looked like what Hartley was trying to do was working - namely give Aberdeen’s CBs lots of the ball, let them fanny about with it and lose it to the niggly industry of El Bak, O’Hara and Gowser.

 

Then either Williams got injured, or Hartley got greedy. Williams wasn’t great but as soon as he went off, Logan got his first two crosses of the second half in, McInnes swapped Johnny Hayes to the right, Holt for the first time in the game working single handedly, was skinned and bang, we go behind. 

 

Up till then, Bain made two great saves but we had an equal amount of chances, even if Aberdeen bossed possession. 

 

Before the game I thought PH had lost his marbles, basically going the much maligned 4-6 (El Bak was furthest forward, but hardly a frontman). However it looked like working until he made the change and McInnes out thought him. 2-1 was just about right, 3-1 (never a pen by the way) flattered Aberdeen big time. However other than McInnes and Chick Young (who was just about licking McInnes post-match) I don’t think too many folks would have argued against 1-1 being fair enough.

 

Nevin said as much last night on TV and even Allan Preston said “Dundee will be just fine” on the radio - and he really doesn’t like us. 

 

Plusses - 

 

Good shape to the team. Other than a couple of slips the back 4 were solid - possibly Cammy’s best game. Wrongly booked early on, but handled that and Hayes REALLY well and unlike O’Hara showed a real maturity after his booking (and I’ve been wrongly accused of being a Kerr-basher), Jules was rock solid (I’m not a fan) and Holt (even with the slips in mind) continues to improve and scored a good goal. 

 

Hately, El Bak (and Gomis) all look like decent, late additions to the squad.

 

El Bak looks a player. Superb attitude, great feet, great awareness. 

 

Minuses

 

Losing, obviously. 

 

Hartley’s subbies. I’m not sure I’ve seen a manager whose changes consistently make us a worse team on the day. Loy still looking like a lost wee laddie (and I’ve stood up for him) when asked to play in this system, Wighton struggles badly defensively and hasn’t come on the way we all hoped/expected (plenty time yet, he’s young) but he should be pushing for a consistent start now and he’s not really.

 

A SERIOUS lack of goal threat.

 

Lack of depth in the squad in important areas and too many players (Gowser, Ross, O’Hara, Vincent, Low maybe even Duffy and now Hately (who I’d guess was signed as a RB but PH has decided he’s better than his other midfield holding options, so that’s where he’s playing) for the same area of the park.

 

That when we attack, we seem unable to not lose goals and that when we sit in, we lack threat.

 

No partner for El Bak.

 

Anyway, (tin het on) I know many will crucify me for the above - after all the mood isn’t good and I totally get why. However I’m more heartened after Sunday than I was the other 3 home games, because I at least see a plan coming together and a little more understanding between the players than I have up until now.

 

That said, we need some more points on the board, a win or two quite soon and a goal threat. other than that, we’re set… 

Great post. We do need a Hemmings replacement to play the lone striker when required. El Bak isn't the player for this role. Hopefully PH starts to play 2 up front in a 5 3 2 and 3 4 1 2.

[mondee93]

7 hours ago, barkblue said:

I’ve read most of the posts since yesterday’s game but haven’t really posted anything as I wanted to reflect on the game first, rather than pile in with the reactionary stuff I usually spout after a disappointing result. 

 

After the Rangers, Hamilton and Killie games I’ve been utterly angry at thrown away points, poor performances and a lack of ability to execute whatever the plan was. However I walked out of Dens on Sunday actually thinking it was the best (only seen the home games) league performance I’ve seen so far this season.

 

We weren’t great and I can’t be and am not happy with a 3-1 loss at home. However against Killie and Hamilton we were bossed on the park by poor sides and never got our own game plan into action. Against Rangers, we let them go 2 up before having a go. Other than a poorly defended and awful piece of goalkeeping, up until the mid-point of the second half it looked like what Hartley was trying to do was working - namely give Aberdeen’s CBs lots of the ball, let them fanny about with it and lose it to the niggly industry of El Bak, O’Hara and Gowser.

 

Then either Williams got injured, or Hartley got greedy. Williams wasn’t great but as soon as he went off, Logan got his first two crosses of the second half in, McInnes swapped Johnny Hayes to the right, Holt for the first time in the game working single handedly, was skinned and bang, we go behind. 

 

Up till then, Bain made two great saves but we had an equal amount of chances, even if Aberdeen bossed possession. 

 

Before the game I thought PH had lost his marbles, basically going the much maligned 4-6 (El Bak was furthest forward, but hardly a frontman). However it looked like working until he made the change and McInnes out thought him. 2-1 was just about right, 3-1 (never a pen by the way) flattered Aberdeen big time. However other than McInnes and Chick Young (who was just about licking McInnes post-match) I don’t think too many folks would have argued against 1-1 being fair enough.

 

Nevin said as much last night on TV and even Allan Preston said “Dundee will be just fine” on the radio - and he really doesn’t like us. 

 

Plusses - 

 

Good shape to the team. Other than a couple of slips the back 4 were solid - possibly Cammy’s best game. Wrongly booked early on, but handled that and Hayes REALLY well and unlike O’Hara showed a real maturity after his booking (and I’ve been wrongly accused of being a Kerr-basher), Jules was rock solid (I’m not a fan) and Holt (even with the slips in mind) continues to improve and scored a good goal. 

 

Hately, El Bak (and Gomis) all look like decent, late additions to the squad.

 

El Bak looks a player. Superb attitude, great feet, great awareness. 

 

Minuses

 

Losing, obviously. 

 

Hartley’s subbies. I’m not sure I’ve seen a manager whose changes consistently make us a worse team on the day. Loy still looking like a lost wee laddie (and I’ve stood up for him) when asked to play in this system, Wighton struggles badly defensively and hasn’t come on the way we all hoped/expected (plenty time yet, he’s young) but he should be pushing for a consistent start now and he’s not really.

 

A SERIOUS lack of goal threat.

 

Lack of depth in the squad in important areas and too many players (Gowser, Ross, O’Hara, Vincent, Low maybe even Duffy and now Hately (who I’d guess was signed as a RB but PH has decided he’s better than his other midfield holding options, so that’s where he’s playing) for the same area of the park.

 

That when we attack, we seem unable to not lose goals and that when we sit in, we lack threat.

 

No partner for El Bak.

 

Anyway, (tin het on) I know many will crucify me for the above - after all the mood isn’t good and I totally get why. However I’m more heartened after Sunday than I was the other 3 home games, because I at least see a plan coming together and a little more understanding between the players than I have up until now.

 

That said, we need some more points on the board, a win or two quite soon and a goal threat. other than that, we’re set… 

Probably the best post reflecting this game. One thing that keeps coming back though is the system and the players we have for it and thats where a lot of the critiscism of the manager points to. Far too many of the wrong type of player signed making us weak and uncreative in the midfield and this has been the same for a long time now, thats where my frustration comes from.Also hartley is quite often being out thought by other managers and thats why we only tend to see one half of a match as being good, we always seem to be playing catch up or change tactics too late (rangers game). 

   We have a decent team still on its day but as i keep saying if we're dragged into a fight, loss of confidence and fight could be one of our major weaknesses, we're only 2 players short imo but PH never seems to find or even see the missing link.

[Bubster]

28 minutes ago, mondee93 said:

Probably the best post reflecting this game. One thing that keeps coming back though is the system and the players we have for it and thats where a lot of the critiscism of the manager points to. Far too many of the wrong type of player signed making us weak and uncreative in the midfield and this has been the same for a long time now, thats where my frustration comes from.Also hartley is quite often being out thought by other managers and thats why we only tend to see one half of a match as being good, we always seem to be playing catch up or change tactics too late (rangers game). 

   We have a decent team still on its day but as i keep saying if we're dragged into a fight, loss of confidence and fight could be one of our major weaknesses, we're only 2 players short imo but PH never seems to find or even see the missing link.

We were plenty creative on Sunday. Our goal and a few of the defence splitting passes player were a joy to watch.

Ive heard a lot of people say all our chances were gifts from Aberdeen. At this level teams very rarely make unforced errors at the back. Our high pressing was very evident and we forced them into errors with intense pressure and players being high enough up the park to capitalise.

Poor finishing let us down on Sunday, not a lack of creativity or chances.

[Edin_Dee]

Thought pretty much the same as the OP. Didn't really understand the reaction of some fans after the game to our performance. Our game plan was to sit back and hit them on the counter attack. We had plenty chances and the game really could have gone either way. Reminded me a little of the Ross County game where we did the same thing. Difference was we took our chances in that game and Aberdeen have much more clinical players.

The worry is not how we played against Aberdeen. The worry is where do our wins come from if we can't beat Killie and Hamilton at home.

[Spiritof62]

It's a great mystery as to regardless how many midfielders we sign, they all seem anonymous on the pitch, nobody offers anything different and none of them carry much of a goal threat.

Its time the players in question (we all know who they are) started to perform for the fans, the team and for themselves.