Williams

[TC86]

I'm sorry but he is not up to the job ...

He has offered NOTHING since signing ...

He doesn't want the ball and when he is given it his first thought 99%  of the time is to turn back and pass it someone behind him or inside him ...

Since he arrived Ive not seen him beat a man and don't think ive seen him deliver a cross in the box ..Surely a wingers first thought is to get to the by-line and get a cross in,  is that not the basics for a winger along with the ability to maybe go past a defender now and again ??

 Even allowing for the fact hes a wing back just now you still need to offer SOMETHING in an attacking sense when playing that role the lads doing nothing but filling a jersey and I will be honest I could go to a half decent Junior team and get a boy to do what he is offering  ..

I'm not sure what PH is seeing in either of the two guys we got from ICT but the best left wing back at the club is Holt .. If he is going with the 3 central defenders and wing backs he needs to get Gadz or Julen back in there alongside Odea & Gomis , move Holt to left wing back and get Williams on the bench as he is simply not doing anything other than filling a jersey ...

Before people start having a go saying its bad to slate players I am more than happy for both Williams and Vincent to prove me wrong ( it most certainly wouldn't be the first time ive been wrong ) but they've both had plenty time now to show SOMETHING and today , yet again , they offered NOTHING ! 

 

[barkblue]

5 minutes ago, DBDU said:

I'm sorry but he is not up to the job ...

He has offered NOTHING since signing ...

He doesn't want the ball and when he is given it his first thought 99%  of the time is to turn back and pass it someone behind him or inside him ...

Since he arrived Ive not seen him beat a man and don't think ive seen him deliver a cross in the box ..Surely a wingers first thought is to get to the by-line and get a cross in,  is that not the basics for a winger along with the ability to maybe go past a defender now and again ??

 Even allowing for the fact hes a wing back just now you still need to offer SOMETHING in an attacking sense when playing that role the lads doing nothing but filling a jersey and I will be honest I could go to a half decent Junior team and get a boy to do what he is offering  ..

I'm not sure what PH is seeing in either of the two guys we got from ICT but the best left wing back at the club is Holt .. If he is going with the 3 central defenders and wing backs he needs to get Gadz or Julen back in there alongside Odea & Gomis , move Holt to left wing back and get Williams on the bench as he is simply not doing anything other than filling a jersey ...

Before people start having a go saying its bad to slate players I am more than happy for both Williams and Vincent to prove me wrong ( it most certainly wouldn't be the first time ive been wrong ) but they've both had plenty time now to show SOMETHING and today , yet again , they offered NOTHING ! 

 

I don't think anyone will think that's particularly harsh. I thought Williams was decent against Aberdeen, where he basically played as a defender, but he looked lost today.

[blythswood]

Ross is the best out a bad bunch of the ICT boys. 

The fact we are tied in to long term deals with Williams and Vincent is scary. The Board have trusted Hartley's judgement and been let down badly.  See also Nicky Low. And Roberts.

[Blue4evr]

I think the problem with PH is he doesn't want to sign a player who is "ordinary" and a regular at Well, Killie, Saints etc. He always wants to sign someone who he wants to "discover" as being the next great thing. He did it with Stewart and to a lesser extent Hemmings, but the vast majority have been utter dross.

[Attilio]

2 minutes ago, blythswood said:

Ross is the best out a bad bunch of the ICT boys. 

The fact we are tied in to long term deals with Williams and Vincent is scary. The Board have trusted Hartley's judgement and been let down badly.  See also Nicky Low. And Roberts.

Ross is by far the best of the bunch.  Have no idea why he deserved the hook today when Vincent especially was still on the park.  It looked like most of our stuff today was planned to go through Vincent, which was a waste of time.  I thought Ross performed more than decent last season in centre mid when KT left. On the showings I've seen so far, Vincent just doesn't have it.

[barkblue]

9 minutes ago, Attilio said:

Ross is by far the best of the bunch.  Have no idea why he deserved the hook today when Vincent especially was still on the park.  It looked like most of our stuff today was planned to go through Vincent, which was a waste of time.  I thought Ross performed more than decent last season in centre mid when KT left. On the showings I've seen so far, Vincent just doesn't have it.

Yeah, that's one of the things I can't work out. Ross came onto a game last season and was probably one of our success stories. So why is he the guy who seems to give way for everyone else (O'Hara, Hately), or get the hook when others on the park were obviously playing worse?

[TC86]

6 minutes ago, blythswood said:

Ross is the best out a bad bunch of the ICT boys. 

The fact we are tied in to long term deals with Williams and Vincent is scary. The Board have trusted Hartley's judgement and been let down badly.  See also Nicky Low. And Roberts.

Yeah I agree with Ross being the best of the bunch  but I was meaning the two we signed pre season ...

The thing is I actually think more often than not PH has signed good players ..

I think Low is decent but has struggled with injuries more than lack of ability in my opinion ..

Even Roberts ,as disappointing a signing as that turned out to be,  it wasn't due to lack of ability. That lad should have been tearing up that league with the ability he had .. He had pace to burn , could go past defenders , could take a goal and his delivery of the ball from wide areas and set pieces was excellent....unfortunately  he just had the worst attitude of any footballer I think ive ever seen and no heart whatsoever but you could at least understand what PH seen in him to offer him the deal ..

Bain , Stewart , Hemmings again you can see what he seen in them all but these 2 lads.... I wonder what on earth he seen in them .. They are clearly Bang average journeymen footballers !

[Cobra]

2 minutes ago, barkblue said:

Yeah, that's one of the things I can't work out. Ross came onto a game last season and was probably one of our success stories. So why is he the guy who seems to give way for everyone else (O'Hara, Hately), or get the hook when others on the park were obviously playing worse?

I've thought this before about Ross before. Managers will sometimes IMO give more game-time to players who kick up a fuss for the sake of keeping a happy dressing room.

I watched Ross warming up on the sidelines earlier this season looking as if he doesn't have a care in the world and I've been thinking this guy should be playing. Maybe I'm reading too much into but my feeling is Ross would play more if he was a big character vocally. 

[blythswood]

Ross is better than Williams and Vincent but he was awful today, partially because he had no defined role. The midfield was, yet again, a total mess. 

Compare that to the 4 4 2 organised simple structure of St.Johnstone. Players comfortable in position and signed to fit into that system. 

Hartley has no clear idea of what he wants. And it shows. 

[Attilio]

1 minute ago, blythswood said:

Ross is better than Williams and Vincent but he was awful today, partially because he had no defined role. The midfield was, yet again, a total mess. 

Compare that to the 4 4 2 organised simple structure of St.Johnstone. Players comfortable in position and signed to fit into that system. 

Hartley has no clear idea of what he wants. And it shows. 

He wasn't good and looked a bit lost - like he does when he's pushed out on the flanks.  He likes getting the ball and is comfortable with the ball at his feet.  More importantly, imo he looks to play the ball forward, without wanting to give the ball away unnecessarily.  In contrast, I actually came to the conclusion today that Vincent was just playing the ball the way he happened to be facing at the time. Looking to get the ball and just pass it on as quickly as possible, regardless.

[Ivan Drago]

Williams strikes me as a player who doesn't understand his role within the side. The use of wing backs is a notoriously difficult formation and I think he's paying for that. 

Playing him as an out and out winger and we would see what he's made of. 

Also Nick Ross should be a starter every week. I would go as far as to say he's the best midfielder at the club. 

[harry94]

8 minutes ago, Ivan Drago said:

Williams strikes me as a player who doesn't understand his role within the side. The use of wing backs is a notoriously difficult formation and I think he's paying for that. 

Playing him as an out and out winger and we would see what he's made of. 

Also Nick Ross should be a starter every week. I would go as far as to say he's the best midfielder at the club. 

Agree with all of this. I don't really see how we can slate Williams for not going forward when he's getting deployed how he is. He's doing what the manager has asked of him. Against Ross County, he was a good attacking threat and a difficult player for their defence to deal with coming forward and for Inverness, he caused quite a few teams problems. We're clearly not getting the best out of him.