Fine Margins

[HK Blues]

For sure we're not where we'd like to be, but cannot really say we're in a false position. That said, I'm sure we are no worse than a handful of other teams. Wether we go down or not it's early days but we look like we're one of the group that could do so.

If I'm being optimistic, I'd look at the horrible run of fixtures we've just had - pretty much played all the top 6. So, that leaves room for some hope that we can pick up points with the, on paper, easier games coming up. Question is, are we actually good enough to beat the teams just above us? If not, we're doomed regardless.

It would be a sore one to lose Hartley. I do think he's been good for us. And would another manager get more out of this squad? And, what level of replacement is out there? All that said, when a manager takes his team to the bottom if the league then his position must be in jeopardy. It's that simple.

I do believe we should not ignore the fixtures we've just completed and at least wait until we've 'balanced' the fixtures before taking any decision on the manager's position. Some may say that's too late, i don't think it is. We're not isolated at the bottom with no hope so sacking the boss now has its risks. 

I'd like to think we're capable of moving out of danger with Hartley at the helm. Next couple of weeks are gonna be defining for Hartley and his tenure.

The thought of dropping out of the top league again is depressing.

[Prince Buster]

We don't look good enough to beat a second division side right now.

If we lost Hartley it would not be a sore one at all and no other manager would get anything from this (Hartley's) squad.

Were not isolated at the bottom yet but are bankers for the drop as things stand right now.

Liking your blind optimism though.

Edited 24 October 2016 by Prince Buster

[Bubster]

10 minutes ago, Prince Buster said:

We don't look good enough to beat a second division side right now.

If we lost Hartley it would not be a sore one at all and no other manager would get anything from this (Hartley's) squad.

Were not isolated at the bottom yet but are bankers for the drop as things stand right now.

Liking your blind optimism though.

There is a lot of short term thinking kicking about at the moment and this is a prime example of it.

We were a match for Hamilton, Killie, County and well first round of fixtures, and these teams all remain in touching distance. Far too early to be pulling the trigger yet.

Keep harping on about it but people don't seem to have learned from Utd last season. Who comes in to replace Hartley - keep it realistic please.

[Dundeefc1783]

John Hughes would surely be a candidate. 

[Ranking Roger]

Not calling for his head, but we've failed to beat to beat Killie and Hamilton at home, Peterhead and East Fife away despite having Stewart for the 2 away games. So I'm sorry but can't, see how we're going to pick up 6/7 points in the next 3 games. Hope I'm wrong though.

[bjs]

3 hours ago, Bubster said:

There is a lot of short term thinking kicking about at the moment and this is a prime example of it.

We were a match for Hamilton, Killie, County and well first round of fixtures, and these teams all remain in touching distance. Far too early to be pulling the trigger yet.

Keep harping on about it but people don't seem to have learned from Utd last season. Who comes in to replace Hartley - keep it realistic please.

It saddens me to say this but I think Hughes would get more out of this squad. Yes the squad is limited and so is he but he always had his teams very fit, very organised, hard to beat and going out with motivation,desire and passion. We don't seem to be the fittest, we don't look organised, we're not hard to beat and there seems to be a lack of motivation. So while he's not everyone's cup of tea I think he would get more out of this current squad.

[Sebastiano Nela]

38 minutes ago, bjs said:

It saddens me to say this but I think Hughes would get more out of this squad. Yes the squad is limited and so is he but he always had his teams very fit, very organised, hard to beat and going out with motivation,desire and passion. We don't seem to be the fittest, we don't look organised, we're not hard to beat and there seems to be a lack of motivation. So while he's not everyone's cup of tea I think he would get more out of this current squad.

he's also inherit two or three players that he didn't rate at ICT

 

[mondee93]

21 minutes ago, Sebastiano Nela said:

he's also inherit two or three players that he didn't rate at ICT

 

not his fault if he did,but he was right there, if he did come here he wouldnt be the only one who doesnt rate them !!

[Sebastiano Nela]

Agreed

[Prince Buster]

4 hours ago, Bubster said:

There is a lot of short term thinking kicking about at the moment and this is a prime example of it.

We were a match for Hamilton, Killie, County and well first round of fixtures, and these teams all remain in touching distance. Far too early to be pulling the trigger yet.

Keep harping on about it but people don't seem to have learned from Utd last season. Who comes in to replace Hartley - keep it realistic please.

I am being realistic Bubster. I've already said I won't be calling for Hartley's head just yet however if the decision was made I wouldn't be overly disappointed either. Totally agree about United last season and changing the manager when they did done for them, however so did the ultimate appointment of Mixu who was nowhere near their first choice.

We were easily a match for Hamilton, Killie and County in the first round of fixtures as you say however something has gone drastically wrong and we've gone backwards - I know you're a positive sort and not a knicker wetter like me but IMO that's an undeniable fact.

Three games to turn it round, if he doesn't do it I'm afraid we're all but gone. Hartley may be the best option to get us straight back up though.

[Bubster]

55 minutes ago, Prince Buster said:

I am being realistic Bubster. I've already said I won't be calling for Hartley's head just yet however if the decision was made I wouldn't be overly disappointed either. Totally agree about United last season and changing the manager when they did done for them, however so did the ultimate appointment of Mixu who was nowhere near their first choice.

We were easily a match for Hamilton, Killie and County in the first round of fixtures as you say however something has gone drastically wrong and we've gone backwards - I know you're a positive sort and not a knicker wetter like me but IMO that's an undeniable fact.

Three games to turn it round, if he doesn't do it I'm afraid we're all but gone. Hartley may be the best option to get us straight back up though.

My reference to keeping it realistic wasn't a pop at your post - it was for those who would propose alternative managers.

Tin hat on here, but the Dundee Utd job, IMO, on paper was probably more attractive than our job at the moment.

They have more bums on seats, more money (3rd highest budget in league last year plus recent big money sales) and a chairman who was obviously willing to spend big to try and avoid the drop.

If they couldn't get their 1st, 2nd or even 3rd choice, what chance have we got? I'm going from memory here but hasn't Yogi said he's finished with Scottish football and Houston said he's retiring after Falkirk? Are Dundee FC a big enough draw to change that decision? 

Are these guys even an improvement on Hartley? Either way it's a huge risk.

Edit - I don't think the next 3 games are absolute make or break for our season, still a very long way to go so your "all but gone" comment is IMO premature, particularly when we have a January transfer window to freshen the squad up - I do however think they are make or break for PH.

 

 

Edited 24 October 2016 by Bubster

[mondee93]

3 minutes ago, Bubster said:

My reference to keeping it realistic wasn't a pop at your post - it was for those who would propose alternative managers.

Tin hat on here, but the Dundee Utd job, IMO, on paper was probably more attractive than our job at the moment.

They have more bums on seats, more money (3rd highest budget in league last year plus recent big money sales) and a chairman who was obviously willing to spend big to try and avoid the drop.

If they couldn't get their 1st, 2nd or even 3rd choice, what chance have we got? I'm going from memory here but hasn't Yogi said he's finished with Scottish football and Houston said he's retiring after Falkirk? Are Dundee FC a big enough draw to change that decision? 

Are these guys even an improvement on Hartley? Either way it's a huge risk.

 

 

bubster your totally correct, which worries me even more. I'm afraid we're probably stuck with hartley and his duff signings considering there's no realistic managerial targets out there and even if there was they'd be stuck with the same players anyway! Imo we're now in a no win situation ( not just on the park) and we'll need to hope things change asap