DOC OUT

[Hilltoon Klok]

Doc's inane ramblings game after game, week after week are no longer boring but delusional and pathetic. Decisions are NOT "going against us", we've NOT been "hard done by" and we are NOT "an honest bunch of lads".

As for the "he has credit it the tank for last season", what a lot of s**t. We scraped into the top 6 after almost chucking it and probably should of grabbed a European spot but we chucked that. But why were we even remotely close to it?? Absolutely nothing to do with us. Aberdeen were absolutely abysmal, Hibs were garbage, United were in the Championship.

Move on to this season, Hearts and Hibs couldn't buy a win between themselves the first 2 months and are now miles ahead of us(don't let the 8 and 15 point gap kid anyone we're not even remotely close), Aberdeen went over 10 games without a win and they still will be nowhere near bottom 6 or a relegation battle. We have been defensively shambolic for over 2 year now, averaging 2 goals against every game. FOUR clean sheets all season(in all comps), we couldn't even keep out Bonnyrigg or Annan. Doc continually playing a back 3 when all and sundry can see it's a shambles. Is it pigheaded and stubbornness or is it he's really just absolutely clueless? Team selections and substitutions for months now have been erratic/shambolic/tombola-esque. He doesn't seem to have the capacity to change a game or be able to change his system and it's now visible for all to see as we trundle towards relegation.

The wheels haven't come off, we've simply haven't been serviced properly and have been in limp mode now for months, before sputtering to a halt with everyone out of sight.

It's not all on Doc, this all lies at the feet of Tim Keyes and him giving control and the running of the club to John Nelms. Nelms is NOT a football man and never will be. In all his time here he has learnt nothing. He's a Walter Mitty, a charlatan, and nothing more than a halfwit. Until he is gone we can go through another 20 managers and nothing will change. We're dying a slow death on the back of the pipe dreams of a havverin erse. Nelms is nothing more than a Melville/Dixon/Cook/DeStefano of the woke generation. He's killing the club from the inside.

[Parcbara]

12 hours ago, Hilltoon Klok said:

Doc's inane ramblings game after game, week after week are no longer boring but delusional and pathetic. Decisions are NOT "going against us", we've NOT been "hard done by" and we are NOT "an honest bunch of lads".

As for the "he has credit it the tank for last season", what a lot of s**t. We scraped into the top 6 after almost chucking it, should of grabbed a European spot too. But why where we even remotely close to it? Absolutely nothing to do with us. Aberdeen were absolutely abysmal, Hibs were garbage, United were in the Championship.

Move on to this season, Hearts and Hibs couldn't buy a win between for the first 2 months and are now miles off of us(don't let the 8 and 15 point gap kid anyone), they will be nowhere near bottom 6 or a relegation battle. We have been defensively shambolic for over 2 year now, averaging 2 goals against every game. 4 clean sheets all season(all comps), we couldn't even keep out Bonnyrigg or Annan. Doc's continually playing a back 3 when all and sundry can see it's a shambles, is it pigheaded and stubborn or is he really just absolutely clueless? Team selections and substitutions for months now have been erratic/shambolic/tombola-esque. He doesn't have the capacity to change a game, to change his system and it's now visible for all to see as we trundle towards relegation.

The wheels haven't come off, we've simply haven't been serviced properly and have been in limp mode now for months, before  sputtering to a halt with everyone out of sight. It's not all on Doc, this all lies at the feet of Tim Keays and him giving the running of the club to John Nelms. Nelms is NOT a football man and never will be. In all his time here he has learnt nothing. He's a Walter Mitty, a charlatan, and nothing more than a halfwit. Until he is gone we can go through another 20 managers and nothing will change. We're dying a slow death on the back of the pipe dreams of a havverin erse. Nelms is nothing more than a Melville/Dixon/Cook/DeStefano of the woke generation. He's killing the club from the inside.

Fair comment.   Whoever is responsible for leaving our midfield in the abject state that it is in now, coming to the critical stage of the season for us, should be shot.  We would almost be as well fielding Garza on his own, watching the cup-tie against Hearts, and the infuriating things is, that it was screaming out at us.  

[TC86]

Strangely  I actually found myself  agreeing with a lot of what Doc had to say post match Friday .

We WERE poor first half and looked far better  after the break , we DID look like the team more likely from the start of the second half up until they scored their 2nd goal , we DID need to be stronger for their 3rd goal as good as a strike as it was and we SHOULD have went 2-1 up when with what looked a simple looking through ball would have set up Adewumi .

Here's the thing though , most of those things can be traced directly back to Doc unfortunately .

We were poor first half because we had absolutely NOTHING in the middle of the park due in a large part because we started a centre back  in there , who is NOT an SPL level Midfielder , while Mo, who is probably our best central midfielder as well as being a physical presence ,  was sat on the bench . 

We were poor first half because we couldn't hold on to the ball in midfield ( See above as same reason why ) and do  not hold the ball when its played up front so its constantly being turned over to the opposition.  The absence of a ball retaining No9 lies  at the door of the manager.

We were too soft for the third goal because we are too young and too small for competing at this level and again this is Doc's side .

Yes we have missed key players and that has undoubtedly contributed to where we find ourselves  but ultimately the buck still  stops with the manager for where we currently fid ourselves IMO .

In saying all that and weighing everything up the question is do i want to see him sacked ??? ...the answer is no !   

I want to see him keep us up because i still believe he can and if he can I feel there  actually IS  a good manager there who has did more right than wrong during his time at the club .

If he can keep us up then he will be  a better manager for having survived and ultimately that will benefit us long term 

[darkbluecheshire]

Like many I’ve been vocal, not just about TD but the standards that have dropped this year. We can deliberate as much as we want to but the stats don’t lie, even with injuries. They have failed to bring in another striker and that’s on nelms and Keyes. What I think we should perhaps consider is… that’s the campy nou project is on knifes edge via the decision, this is my mind is the first year that a manager hasn’t been backed with more firepower or additional attacking influence. Are the rumours true that the yanks may just pull out or put us up for sale ; if new stadia is not going to be accepted by the council! Other point is TD got a full back room should there not be some review of performance, all experienced players and now coaches! Yet we are still shipping goals in! we a played fitba, and if there are players who don’t cut it should be dropped, this lot are shipping too often, despite decent guys and I’m sure had some sort of talent at premier clubs.

The partnerships, I’m not getting Garza is a decent player, Chespi yet to see anything couple of flicks here and there, we should have had a striker (or two in)  in if that was the case. What financial benefit are we getting, have we got some sort of buy into the players development? I’m interesting someone saying at weekend we didn’t play to mains strengths, I was never a fan but Ayr are playing into his feet and the other striker is running off him!

If we stay up or go down it’s a huge rebuild once again….. 

[scarfo]

On 10/03/2025 at 13:27, Parcbara said:

Fair comment.   Whoever is responsible for leaving our midfield in the abject state that it is in now, coming to the critical stage of the season for us, should be shot.  We would almost be as well fielding Garza on his own, watching the cup-tie against Hearts, and the infuriating things is, that it was screaming out at us.  

And striker situation, criminal stupidity 

[Gowrie Dee 1962]

Decisions are NOT "going against us", we've NOT been "hard done by" and we are NOT "an honest bunch of lads".

 

You alluded to it here but another thing that is really getting to me is after each goal “we feel there was a foul in the build up to the goal”!

 

There must be alleged fouls in every goal we score but when we score we are brave!

At least he hid not say his team would analyse!

 

I obviously hope we win Sunday but if St Johnstone win Saturday and we loose to go bottom he will have reached the end of the road!

[darkbluecheshire]

Too late to bring an alternative in, that’s on Nelms. 
we just have to go with what we have, I would be included to give the young lad who scored the u18 goals 15m here there before the end of the season looks decent. 

[Gedee]

1 hour ago, darkbluecheshire said:

Too late to bring an alternative in, that’s on Nelms. 
we just have to go with what we have, I would be included to give the young lad who scored the u18 goals 15m here there before the end of the season looks decent. 

NELMS  It may be I'm being totally unfair. But I believe, therein lies the problem  (I feel, many others are of the same mind)

It also appears to me, JN has again reached that stage, because of his uncertainty  & lack of hands-on skill & experience, & has taken (again) the non-active role, of sticking his head in the sand, hoping, when he pops back up again, all will be well once more. 

Maybe I'm being over-critical him. But I would prefer if he would focus, all his"talent & experience" on his Campie ProjectLe,

Leave Manager Selection/General Everyday Running/Decision-making of DFC  to someone more suited to this role.

The Topic Heading..."DOC OUT" may, or may not, be reasonable & fair (We are all entitled to our own view on that)

But my concern is all about, if TD goes. Is it once more; JN Leading & Deciding, the FInal Manager Selection?

MAYBE OVERSTATING CONCERNS. WITH THAT IN MIND, I'D APPRECIATE VIEWS/REASSURANCE OF OTHERS?

Feels to me most days that we are blindly, continuing to go round & round & round, in ever Decreasing Circles

[DFC1974]

3 hours ago, Gedee said:

NELMS  It may be I'm being totally unfair. But I believe, therein lies the problem  (I feel, many others are of the same mind)

It also appears to me, JN has again reached that stage, because of his uncertainty  & lack of hands-on skill & experience, & has taken (again) the non-active role, of sticking his head in the sand, hoping, when he pops back up again, all will be well once more. 

Maybe I'm being over-critical him. But I would prefer if he would focus, all his"talent & experience" on his Campie ProjectLe,

Leave Manager Selection/General Everyday Running/Decision-making of DFC  to someone more suited to this role.

The Topic Heading..."DOC OUT" may, or may not, be reasonable & fair (We are all entitled to our own view on that)

But my concern is all about, if TD goes. Is it once more; JN Leading & Deciding, the FInal Manager Selection?

MAYBE OVERSTATING CONCERNS. WITH THAT IN MIND, I'D APPRECIATE VIEWS/REASSURANCE OF OTHERS?

Feels to me most days that we are blindly, continuing to go round & round & round, in ever Decreasing Circles

For your reassurance purposes , and for what it’s worth, I find myself defending John Nelms much more than I probably want to, or maybe even should do. However, for whatever reason, I often think we have created a bit of a ‘Nickleback effect’ against him which seems to cloud a lot of rational thinking when we debate issues, particularly when things are going wrong. I think it’s natural to look for someone to blame and as a CEO/MD or whatever he is, I suppose he’s fair game. However, some of the ammo that’s fired his way (that we all go along with) is quite often just someone’s assumptions rather than concrete fact. From just this page alone Nelms is carrying a lot of blame;

How do you know he is hands-on meddling with the general footballing side of things?

How do we know it is Nelms who is deciding on manager appointments? 

What other CEOs in British football are “not even a football man”? Is this something that is unique to Dundee FC.

How do we know it was him who decided that we should get rid of Curtis Main and bring nobody else in?

I’m not saying he isn’t at fault for any of these elements, and certainly not saying he isn’t ultimately responsible for them. However, he has appointed Gordon Strachan as a technical director in an advisory capacity and who is held in extremely high regard across British football (not just Scotland) - I actually think we are extremely lucky to have him on board. I think for the most part we are trying to do the right thing and be progressive as possible but within the resources and limitations at our disposal, which perhaps makes meeting objectives more challenging.

However, as frustrated as I am with the position we are currently in, as far as I’m concerned, the footballing buck is firmly stopping with TD. This squad has played well enough up until end of January but the wheels have come off. This isn’t down to Nelms imo (I don’t believe the absence of Main or introduction of Chespi or Donnelly has had this much of a negative impact.) 

[Gedee]

8 minutes ago, DFC1974 said:

For your reassurance purposes , and for what it’s worth, I find myself defending John Nelms much more than I probably want to, or maybe even should do. However, for whatever reason, I often think we have created a bit of a ‘Nickleback effect’ against him which seems to cloud a lot of rational thinking when we debate issues, particularly when things are going wrong. I think it’s natural to look for someone to blame and as a CEO/MD or whatever he is, I suppose he’s fair game. However, some of the ammo that’s fired his way (that we all go along with) is quite often just someone’s assumptions rather than concrete fact. From just this page alone Nelms is carrying a lot of blame;

How do you know he is hands-on meddling with the general footballing side of things?

How do we know it is Nelms who is deciding on manager appointments? 

What other CEOs in British football are “not even a football man”? Is this something that is unique to Dundee FC.

How do we know it was him who decided that we should get rid of Curtis Main and bring nobody else in?

I’m not saying he isn’t at fault for any of these elements, and certainly not saying he isn’t ultimately responsible for them. However, he has appointed Gordon Strachan as a technical director in an advisory capacity and who is held in extremely high regard across British football (not just Scotland) - I actually think we are extremely lucky to have him on board. I think for the most part we are trying to do the right thing and be progressive as possible but within the resources and limitations at our disposal, which perhaps makes meeting objectives more challenging.

However, as frustrated as I am with the position we are currently in, as far as I’m concerned, the footballing buck is firmly stopping with TD. This squad has played well enough up until end of January but the wheels have come off. This isn’t down to Nelms imo (I don’t believe the absence of Main or introduction of Chespi or Donnelly has had this much of a negative impact.) 

Hi DFC'1974. I genuinely appreciate, what I see, as, your fair, well thought through, honest, restrained response.

It does not mean, that I necessarily agree with them all. But it does open the door to a reasoned discussion (imo)

That is important to me. Because, in my view, there nothing to be gained constructively in another slanging match.

And that refers, to anythIng or anyone, on the DBF. Which is why I & most others, try to choose our words carefully.

My biggest concerns with JN are (as what I see) his lack of dialogue/communication, with DFC fans & supporters.

Maybe I've got it all wrong and he's doing a hardy job in the background...Meanwhile we've got to guess & assume.

But going back again to the Topic Heading, the main thrust of my concerns are...

If TD goes, would the New Manager selected be given freedom to do the JOB?

I honestly believe JN's skills & experience would be better focused on Campie

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dondeh]

On 10/03/2025 at 13:54, TC86 said:

I want to see him keep us up because i still believe he can and if he can I feel there  actually IS  a good manager there who has did more right than wrong during his time at the club .

If he can keep us up then he will be  a better manager for having survived and ultimately that will benefit us long term 

Please make this be true.

Yet I was hoping he would have learned and been a better Manager by now, for conceding 68 last season and 61 after 29 games this season. 

[Reverend Lovejoy]

10 hours ago, darkbluecheshire said:

Too late to bring an alternative in, that’s on Nelms. 
we just have to go with what we have, I would be included to give the young lad who scored the u18 goals 15m here there before the end of the season looks decent. 

All about opinions but that is just grasping at straws, that young laddies appeared out of nowhere and now people are wanting him played in one our most important derbies for years. We've got reserve players that cannae get a game. Bonkers.