DOC OUT

[rossco]

2 minutes ago, Billy Campbell's Ghost said:

That’s not encouraging 

It's actually 13 but that includes a basically already retired Legzdins.

But take out the loan players who we know won't be here anyway and it goes down to 9.  Take out Cameron who we know is leaving and it goes down to 8.  Take out McGhee if the Motherwell talk is true and it goes down to 7. 

And that 7 includes Shaughnessy and Reilly who will probably get new deals if they stay fit till the end of the season. Fraser might get an offer too.

It looks like a lot to replace but they'll have known since the start of the season most of those would be leaving, including ones we offered contracts to.

What we need to do in the summer is get more experienced players on permanent deals. 

[Parcbara]

40 minutes ago, Reverend Lovejoy said:

We have 12 players who potentially won't be here next season, it was 14 but Finlay Robertson and Harry Sharp re-signed.

Joe, McGhee,  Palmer-Holden, Mulligan, Cameron, Sylla, Adewumi, Tiffoney, Larkeche,  Fraser, Portales. Who is the other one?

 

[rossco]

9 minutes ago, Parcbara said:

Joe, McGhee,  Palmer-Holden, Mulligan, Cameron, Sylla, Adewumi, Tiffoney, Larkeche,  Fraser, Portales. Who is the other one?

 

Reilly.

[Sinkie]

On 03/03/2025 at 21:47, rossco said:

Reilly.

I would say only two would keep four at a push if in championship pre-contract guys no loans no  

Then again all depends on wages and league we are in 

[rossco]

14 minutes ago, Sinkie said:

I would say only two would keep four at a push if in championship pre-contract guys no loans no  

Then again all depends on wages and league we are in 

Would absolutely keep Larkeche if it was possible.  I'd imagine there's no chance though.

[kenmcblue]

Re balance of squad, are we just financially, the weakest backed team in the league ?

Looking at St.Mirren say, how have they become relatively secure in the top division ?

I remember when they yo-yo’d between the Premier and the Championship, now though they appear, like Motherwell, there to stay.

I only highlight those 2 teams as attendance wise they are close to us, so what are they doing better ?

Also does anyone have some insight on who scouts / does recruitment for those 2 teams ??

[HK Blues]

2 hours ago, kenmcblue said:

Re balance of squad, are we just financially, the weakest backed team in the league ?

Looking at St.Mirren say, how have they become relatively secure in the top division ?

I remember when they yo-yo’d between the Premier and the Championship, now though they appear, like Motherwell, there to stay.

I only highlight those 2 teams as attendance wise they are close to us, so what are they doing better ?

Also does anyone have some insight on who scouts / does recruitment for those 2 teams ??

I would agree we can look at what Motherwell have been doing right to become a fixture in the top league but I don't think St M have reached that level yet.  

[Mr Gandosaur]

8 hours ago, kenmcblue said:

Re balance of squad, are we just financially, the weakest backed team in the league ?

Looking at St.Mirren say, how have they become relatively secure in the top division ?

I remember when they yo-yo’d between the Premier and the Championship, now though they appear, like Motherwell, there to stay.

I only highlight those 2 teams as attendance wise they are close to us, so what are they doing better ?

Also does anyone have some insight on who scouts / does recruitment for those 2 teams ??

Our most recent stint in the Premiership has been too reliant on loan players. Last season we had Beck, Bakayoko, McCracken, Dodgson, Costelloe, Mellon, Robinson, Pineda, Boeteng, Donnelly, Lamie, Howley and Lewis on loan. 

This season it's been Palmer-Holden, Garza, Lopez, Larkeche, Braybrooke, Vetro and Adewumi. 

An established top tier side should have about 3 or 4 loans max to supplement a core group of players. We have had 20 in just over a year and a half. 

[Reverend Lovejoy]

7 hours ago, kenmcblue said:

Re balance of squad, are we just financially, the weakest backed team in the league ?

Imo (and it's just an opinion) we look for the cheap option which creates a false economy. There are some examples of this. There have been players who on paper look like top signings and who afford Nelms (he's in control of the purse strings) a pat on the back, we can't afford/won't pay their wages demands though so we pay what we're willing to then allow the player(s) the opportunity to leave at short notice and with no plan B in place. Hemmings is the obvious one but we're now seeing something similar with Sylla where we've (apparently) brought him in from football limbo with a bit of reputation as a trouble maker and offered him less than he'd probably command without the tags. Sylla is a vital cog in the wheel for us but looks to be thinking of other things after more than proving himself but not recieving adequate financial recompense for his efforts. That's speculation but not necessarily too wide of the mark. We've then got the waifs, strays, misfits and projects who make up part of our squad year on year who struggle to get many minutes never mind many games and you can see why people question the budget and sense behind some of the signings. Given our previous it's probably fair to suggest that we'll struggle in defensive midfielder until the summer and potentially beyond that too. The one LB, one DM and no striking partner for our main striker are indications Docherty maybe isn't in full control of our transfer market dealings or doesn't have the budget to strengthen the areas that badly need strengthening. If Burnley send us a talented kid in the summer I think there's a good chance we take that option rather than paying the demands of an experienced Sylla replacement, we had the opportunity to sign Rodriguez Gorrin in the summer but baulked at his demands.

I've always been unconvinced by the great budgets that our managers are allegedly given.

[Jimmy McNulty]

8 hours ago, kenmcblue said:

Re balance of squad, are we just financially, the weakest backed team in the league ?

Looking at St.Mirren say, how have they become relatively secure in the top division ?

I remember when they yo-yo’d between the Premier and the Championship, now though they appear, like Motherwell, there to stay.

I only highlight those 2 teams as attendance wise they are close to us, so what are they doing better ?

Also does anyone have some insight on who scouts / does recruitment for those 2 teams ??

Both clubs have Heads of Recruitment.

St Mirren's HoR is Martin Foyle formerly of Motherwell and subsequently went on to follow Robinson to Morecambe and Paisley.

Motherwell's HoR is Nick Daws who replaced Foyle after Stephen Robinson resigned with Foyle stepping down shortly after.

@HK Blues is probably right in saying that St Mirren still have a fair bit to go before you can really consider them a fixture in the top flight. There's a difference between their 7 consecutive seasons in the top flight and Motherwell's forty, which makes them the third longest serving top flight club behind Celtic and Aberdeen.

It probably helps in that respect when you get a vote on whether you're relegated or not.

That having been said, I don't think it's wide of the mark to say that St Mirren have used Motherwell as a template in recent seasons. Not only did they hire Stephen Robinson and Martin Foyle while signing many players they worked with at Fir Park, their Chief Executive is former Motherwell captain Keith Lasley whose running of the club seems to have been heavily influenced by the way Alan Burrows operated while he was the CEO of Motherwell.

[Billy Campbell's Ghost]

3 hours ago, Mr Gandosaur said:

Our most recent stint in the Premiership has been too reliant on loan players. Last season we had Beck, Bakayoko, Carson, Dodgson, Costelloe, Mellon, Robinson, Pineda, Boeteng, Donnelly, Lamie, Howley and Lewis on loan. 

This season it's been Palmer-Holden, Garza, Lopez, Larkeche, Braybrooke, Vetro and Adewumi. 

An established top tier side should have about 3 or 4 loans max to supplement a core group of players. We have had 20 in just over a year and a half. 

Robinson and carson were not on loan

[Mr Gandosaur]

27 minutes ago, Billy Campbell's Ghost said:

Robinson and carson were not on loan

Meant McCracken. 

Robinson was on loan.