DOC OUT

[Gedee]

5 minutes ago, Reverend Lovejoy said:

For me our problems are 100% at boardroom level and that filters down to the managers office, the training field, the players and the league table. Changing the manager won't change our fortunes enough to convince me otherwise.

Rev, I accept I have no knowledge at all, of what actually goes on in the Boardroom (or in JN's mind)

So I accept my own opinions will carry little weight among others As they're no more than a Gut Feeling.

TD is going through a tough time & (imo) it will take something like a miracle to survive the Premiership.

Should he be allowed the opportunity to carry on, in his & club's fight for survival? I honestly don't know. 

For DFC fans who are screaming for a change now, I've got to ask...Will it not be, just more of the same?

The DFC 's Boardroom' s long term, ambitious intentions (under TK & JN) may be honest and honorable.

But they should be focusing on the Stadium Project. And leave running of the club, to others more qualified.

I do not think this is case. So were a New Manager  to come in to replace TD. (imo) Nothing would Change.

And, if that is the case, how do we get round that?  WELL I HAVE NO IDEA

(Any Suggestions/solutions, from other DFC Fans & Supporters, appreciated)

 

 

[QuesoGrande]

43 minutes ago, Reverend Lovejoy said:

Hard to see where we, and Docherty, go from here, we're in a mess and have time to get out of it but there's nothing to suggest we have the tools. 

The smart money's on automatic relegation with a record goals against tally, Shaughnessy has made a difference plus Reilly and Fraser are almost back to fitness but we're grasping at straws if we think they'll be enough, we're only delaying what seems like the inevitable and increasing the pain.....it's death by a thousand cuts. For me our problems are 100% at boardroom level and that filters down to the managers office, the training field, the players and the league table. Changing the manager won't change our fortunes enough to convince me otherwise.

How much more can our mentally scarred fanbase take?. 

 

13 minutes ago, Dundeefc1783 said:

Agree with a lot of this. 

If we change a manager we need someone who can change the club from top to bottom and be allowed to do so taking no sh*te from Nelms. Unfortunately that is very unlikely to happen.

I only partly buy into the boardroom issues. They have been here since 2014 and our problems go back way before then. We have been yoyo ing for 30 years. It’s probably fairer to say that it’s consistent boardroom issues over multiple owners rather than blame it all on the current owners. However I’m not denying that our current situation and that of the last 10 years are largely down to a succession of poor managers chosen by the board. 

[Reverend Lovejoy]

55 minutes ago, Dundeefc1783 said:

Agree with a lot of this. 

If we change a manager we need someone who can change the club from top to bottom and be allowed to do so taking no sh*te from Nelms. Unfortunately that is very unlikely to happen.

Short bursts of success (a winning run, an attractive playing style, goals, cup runs, positive financial news, stability) won't convince me enough that our problems will go away if we focus solely on the dugout, we've saw 10 plus years of this and saw many managers come and go during that period with only a sticky plaster and a fingers crossed approach offered as poor substitutes for the bypass surgery that's required.

Docherty maybe isn't the answer, AGAIN, but neither (apparently) was Goodwin across the road or Gray at Hibs. The difference being that those clubs backed their managers, publicly AND in the transfer market. We're very, very superficial imo in that we look fantastic on paper but really, when the cards are layed on the table, we've not got too many assets, most things are in the hands of others, or in the cases of Cameron and Mulligan, about to be and with relatively little financial recompense in the grand scheme of things. On the park we've got Murray on 17 goals, again on paper that looks fantastic but it's offset by the undoubted fact that he can't adequately play the role he's being asked to play, the low number of points attained per goal and the 3 goals per game needed to gain them. Docherty, or any other manager, can't coach a 30yrs plus striker to win knock on's, hold the ball in AND be a penalty box poacher....it's just not happening in a million years. The fact he had to release Main to balance the books without having the opportunity to sign a replacement has got to be on the man in charge of the purse strings for me although maybe we could've gambled at the back when the injuries hit and ploughed money into the forward areas. Chespi for Main seems like a mistake to me.

Long winded attempt at looking beyond the manager to see where the root cause of our problems lie, I've been a long term critic of Nelms so maybe I'm being unfair but there's not been a lot over his tenure to convince me otherwise.

DOC IN (but only just).

[HK Blues]

1 minute ago, QuesoGrande said:

 

I only partly buy into the boardroom issues. They have been here since 2014 and our problems go back way before then. We have been yoyo ing for 30 years. It’s probably fairer to say that it’s consistent boardroom issues over multiple owners rather than blame it all on the current owners. However I’m not denying that our current situation and that of the last 10 years are largely down to a succession of poor managers chosen by the board. 

Right.

I'd go as far as to say the current incumbents are the best we've had in 50 years. It's not a very high bar, mind you!

[Double Blue]

2 minutes ago, QuesoGrande said:

 However I’m not denying that our current situation and that of the last 10 years are largely down to a succession of poor managers chosen by the board. 

Does "by the board" mean JN?

[Reverend Lovejoy]

7 minutes ago, Gedee said:

Rev, I accept I have no knowledge at all, of what actually goes on in the Boardroom (or in JN's mind)

So I accept my own opinions will carry little weight among others As they're no more than a Gut Feeling.

TD is going through a tough time & (imo) it will take something like a miracle to survive the Premiership.

Should he be allowed the opportunity to carry on, in his & club's fight for survival? I honestly don't know. 

For DFC fans who are screaming for a change now, I've got to ask...Will it not be, just more of the same?

The DFC 's Boardroom' s long term, ambitious intentions (under TK & JN) may be honest and honorable.

But they should be focusing on the Stadium Project. And leave running of the club, to others more qualified.

I do not think this is case. So were a New Manager  to come in to replace TD. (imo) Nothing would Change.

And, if that is the case, how do we get round that?  WELL I HAVE NO IDEA

(Any Suggestions/solutions, from other DFC Fans & Supporters, appreciated)

 

 

Your opinions on what happens in the boardroom are as valid as the next guy's, I've nothing really to go on either bar a gut feeling and some snippets of information, there no real cast iron information. 

All we can do is take Nelms comments (when we're lucky enough to get them) at face value, he might come up trumps and leave a few of us with red faces but he could just as easily up stick's and ride off into the sunset. We're pretty much at the praying and hoping for the best stage again with the goodwill of the owners just about keeping our heads above water. A distinct lack of dialogue and maybe transparency has opened the door to rumour, hearsay and negativity but no-one has had the desire to even attempt to close it. 

The next month or two will show us their real intentions if things don't pick up on and off the park.

[QuesoGrande]

9 minutes ago, Double Blue said:

Does "by the board" mean JN?

Yes, we speak about the board and the directors but we also know that they exist in name only. We have people in named positions but it’s lip service. There are no board meetings or AGM. And that’s not speculation or stirring rumours, it’s fact. The club runs itself on a day to day basis and JN (and Strachan when needed) decides on the big items - new pitch, new manager, training ground. We can speculate why that is but it’s a one man show. By and large we have had rookie managers that maybe don’t feel they can ask questions, with the exception of Bowyer who it seems upset the cart. I am speculating here but I think we can thank Bowyer for Gardyne, new sports science staff and the other back room improvements that have appeared in the last couple of years. Maybe I’m doing a disservice to JN and that was all planned anyway but the word on the pavey was Bowyer called him out. 

[Reverend Lovejoy]

33 minutes ago, QuesoGrande said:

 

I only partly buy into the boardroom issues. They have been here since 2014 and our problems go back way before then. We have been yoyo ing for 30 years. It’s probably fairer to say that it’s consistent boardroom issues over multiple owners rather than blame it all on the current owners. However I’m not denying that our current situation and that of the last 10 years are largely down to a succession of poor managers chosen by the board. 

Under American ownership we're potentially looking at a NINTH manager in 12yrs if we punt Docherty. Regardless of the past and some of the charlatans who've darkened our doors that's a frightening number. 

In the past, when financial mismanagement has hit, we've had well meaning club backers who've reluctantly took the hit when offered a fraction of what they were due, when we entered admin under the Marr's I think they wrote off the best part of £13m (allegedly). The current owners don't have emotional ties so will they be as willing to help us out if the stadium doesn't come to fruition?. The money we lose year on year is repayable to them with interest so all these managers and player pay-offs aren't without payback at some stage. It's how we repay them that's the million dollar question if we miss our on Campy. What is their plan B if there even is one?. 

[Parcbara]

55 minutes ago, Dundeefc1783 said:

Agree with a lot of this. 

If we change a manager we need someone who can change the club from top to bottom and be allowed to do so taking no sh*te from Nelms. Unfortunately that is very unlikely to happen.

I would agree, but that would end in tears, mostly for us, because a strong and experienced  manager would  clash with Nelms pretty quickly. Bowyer soon fell out with him.

[Daniel Watson]

48 minutes ago, Gedee said:

Rev, I accept I have no knowledge at all, of what actually goes on in the Boardroom (or in JN's mind)

So I accept my own opinions will carry little weight among others As they're no more than a Gut Feeling.

TD is going through a tough time & (imo) it will take something like a miracle to survive the Premiership.

Should he be allowed the opportunity to carry on, in his & club's fight for survival? I honestly don't know. 

For DFC fans who are screaming for a change now, I've got to ask...Will it not be, just more of the same?

The DFC 's Boardroom' s long term, ambitious intentions (under TK & JN) may be honest and honorable.

But they should be focusing on the Stadium Project. And leave running of the club, to others more qualified.

I do not think this is case. So were a New Manager  to come in to replace TD. (imo) Nothing would Change.

And, if that is the case, how do we get round that?  WELL I HAVE NO IDEA

(Any Suggestions/solutions, from other DFC Fans & Supporters, appreciated)

 

 

Do we have a board though?  It looks like it’s a board of one in John Nelms, with bits of advice given from G Strachan as required. When did Nelms last communicate his strategy for the club directly with his customers the fans?  Here we are once again in the middle of a full blown crisis which come along at our club as regularly as the number 22 bus. I’m first to agree that FPS have done some good things for the club but putting a team out on the pitch that can keep us in this division seems as far away as ever.

[Jimmy McNulty]

2 hours ago, Reverend Lovejoy said:

Under American ownership we're potentially looking at a NINTH manager in 12yrs if we punt Docherty. Regardless of the past and some of the charlatans who've darkened our doors that's a frightening number.  

I think that is just a consequence of what modern football is now.

A quick browse suggests that there's broadly been a similar turnover of managers at other clubs in roughly the same timeframe (since 2013):

Aberdeen - 6 (Brown, McInnes, Glass, Goodwin, Robson, Thelin)
Celtic - 6 (Lennon, Deila, Rodgers, Lennon, Postecoglu, Rodgers)
DABS - 10 (McNamara, Paatelainen, McKinnon, László, Neilson, Mellon, Courts, Ross, Fox, Goodwin)
Hearts - 9 (McGlynn, Locke, Neilson, Cathro, Levein, Stendel, Neilson, Naismith, Critchley)
Hibs - (Fenlon, Butcher, Stubbs, Lennon, Heckingbottom, Ross, Maloney,
Kilmarnock - 10 (Sheils, Johnston, Locke, Clark, McCulloch, Clarke, Alessio, Dyer, Wright, McInnes)
Motherwell - 8 (McCall, Baraclough, McGhee, Robinson, Alexander, Hammell, Kettlewell, Wimmer)
Rangers - 7 (McCoist, Warburton, Caixinha, Gerrard, Van Bronkhorst, Beale, Clement)
Ross County - 8 (Adams, McIntyre, Coyle, Kettlewell, Hughes, Mackay, Adams, Cowie) 
St Johnstone - 6 (Lomas, Wright, Davidson, Maclean, Levein, Valakari)
St Mirren - 10 (Lennon, Craig, Teale, Murray, Rae, Ross, Stubbs, Kearney, Goodwin, Robinson)

[DFC1974]

1 hour ago, Reverend Lovejoy said:

Under American ownership we're potentially looking at a NINTH manager in 12yrs if we punt Docherty. Regardless of the past and some of the charlatans who've darkened our doors that's a frightening number. 

In the past, when financial mismanagement has hit, we've had well meaning club backers who've reluctantly took the hit when offered a fraction of what they were due, when we entered admin under the Marr's I think they wrote off the best part of £13m (allegedly). The current owners don't have emotional ties so will they be as willing to help us out if the stadium doesn't come to fruition?. The money we lose year on year is repayable to them with interest so all these managers and player pay-offs aren't without payback at some stage. It's how we repay them that's the million dollar question if we miss out on Campy. What is their plan B if there even is one?. 

Is it 9 under American ownership? Even including John Brown (who I think was in place at the time of Americans arrival) I make it only 7 and even then, McGhee was only an interim appointment.

Brown

Hartley

McCann

McIntyre

McPake

McGhee

Doc